Canadian Kingsleys

ancestry.com has given Chris, Phil, Tom and Vanessa a DNA link with Timothy Kingsley:

https://www.ancestry.ca/dna/tests/357D8CBF-41D3-4BEA-A6D7-B576BE469FAB/match/2341C2B2-4BCA-459D-8B74-5E12AE67F1BA

His tree goes:

  1. Timothy Kingsley
    1. Not given Kingsley
      1. Richard Allister Kingsley m Dorothy Priscilla Harvey
        1. John Richard Kingsley b. 7 Apr 1902 Poplar Point, Manitoba d. 16 Sept 1985 Saskatoon, Saskatchewan buried Nipawin, SK
        2. m Mary May Bell b.. 4 Jan 1908 Bathune, SK d.4 Mar 2002 Saskatoon, SK buried Nipawin, SK

Relationship to Timothy: Red and Green information given by Timothy, Blue Carolyn’s speculation

    •  Chris Oram (and Vanessa Windsor and Clive  Russell have DNA matches)
      • Daphne and Philip Russell (DNA match
        • GH Russell
          • Rosa Kate Throssell
            • John Throssell 1811-[or Peggy Kingsley 1814-]
              • Sarah Kingsley 1790 [or John Kingsley 1781-]
                • John Kingsley 1761- and Mary Furrian
                  • ? Kingsley and ?
                • Unknown Kingsley brother or brothers of John 1761. Probably an extra generation to get to James 1819-
              • James Kingsley 1800?- and Mary Hornett 1797?-1870 or  James Kingsley 1819- and Elizabeth Chipperfield 1819- married 1851 [records include a James Kingsley and a Mary marrying in 1818 and having a son James baptised in 1819.  If the Mary was Mary Hornett then Richard and Susan Ann Alice could be uncle and neice!  To keep the Kingsley assets in the family?]
            • Richard Kingsley 1830-1885 and his 2nd wife Susan Ann Alice nee Kingsley 1855-1900 married 1875
          • Albert Kingsley 1876-1957
        • John Richard Kingsley
      • Richard Allister Kingsley
    • Private
  • Timothy Kingsley

e-mails with Chris include

Hi Chris.
Back in Alberta and have a little more info. Albert Kingsley 1876-1957 was sent over to Canada because he was a bad ass. His father Richard 1830-1885 was married to Elizabeth 1822-1871 first wife. Second wife Susan Ann Alice 1855-1900 is Albert’s Mom. James 1800?-1867 and Mary Hornet 1797?-1870 are Richard’s parents. There is also another James 1819 and Elizabeth Chipperfield 1819 who are Susan Ann Alice parents. Very confusing. Question marks. Heading back to PG tomorrow. 65th birthday on Saturday Sept. 22/18. Later Tim K.

My research

John Richard Kingsley: 

Birth vitalstats.gov.mb.ca:  as above no father’s name mother Margaret Tait. No possible births for Margaret Tait in MB, but earliest online 1889. Earliest Kingsley birth in MB online 1900.

Parents’ Marriage vitalstats.gov.mb.ca: Albert Kingsley m Margaret Tait at PLAP on 16 Nov 1899 No other info.  PLAP is Portage la Prairie.

Albert and Margaret:

1916 Canada census Living Selkirk, MB Albert 42yr, born 1874 England (RomanCath), Immigrated 1894.  Farming on own account. (John) Richard second of 7 offspring. NB: Eldest Cecil [Colin] vitalstats.gov.mb.ca: b 30 Aug 1900 Portage La Prairie MB, mother Margaret Tate. He gave his birth year as 1898 in WW1.  Margaret born MB

1906 Canada census living Poplar Point, MB Albert 30yr, born 1876 England. Immigrated 1895. Farmer Offspring Carman [sic], Richard and Alister.  Ages tie in with 1916 census. Marguerette [sic] born MB.

1901 Canada census Living Portage la Prairie MB 28yr born 7 Feb 1873 (very clearly written) England (CofE) immigrated 1886 Farmer. Son Cecil 7m old. Margaret born MB.  Also Dorothy Kingsley 14 years old born England 10 Oct 1887 is their domestic.

Record of Albert’s emigration to Canada:

Albert Kingsley; Male; Age: 18; Labourer; Birth Year: abt 1875
From Liverpool, England; Londonderry, Ireland
Arrival date: 21 Jul 1893 Arrival Port: Quebec, Quebec, Canada
Vessel: Parisian.  Going on to Winnipeg ‘C.P.R.’

Also an A Kingsley arrived Liverpool on the Parisian from Portland in February 1900. In May arriving  Quebec on the Parisian and going to Winnipeg farmer Albert Kingsley 26yr with child Dora Kingsley 12yr born about 1888.  Did Albert return to England for Dora / Dorothy?

Albert’s English birthplace:

ancestry suggest that Albert’s English 1881 census entry is with parents Richard (50yrs, 240 acres b 1831 St Ippolitts) and Susan Kingsley (26yrs) living at St Ippolitts, Hitchin, Hertfordshire.  Albert is the third son born c.1876 (Richard, Robert and Lizzie elder siblings by earlier marriage? and William younger sibling).

Note: Susan’s maiden name was Kingsley she married widower and cattle salesman Richard by licence in London 20 November 1875. Full name Susan Ann Alice Kingsley.  Father of both called  James Kingsley. Richard’s father a dealer, Susan’s a farmer.

As long as Albert immigrated 1894 or 5 not 1886 when he was 15yrs old then:

1891 census shows widow Eliza Kingsley (72yr b 1819 Clophill, Bedfordshire), widow [but cannot be mother of Richard in above 1881 census] Susan Kingsley (36yrs b1855) [therefore the mother of Albert?] Richard and Edward, Albert 15yrs b1876 and younger William and Hilda. Last 3 shown as grand children of Eliza, other 3 her children, looks correct from 1861 and 71 censuses.



Before continuing we should see if this is likely to be the correct Albert and if there are any other English candidates.

For this Albert: He disappears from the English records after 1891 census, he is in Hertfordshire that ties in with the DNA link.

No other English candidates:
Albert Victor Kingsley, piano finisher born and lived in London, died 1973
Albert Edward Kingsley:
b Benger, Hertfordshire. Parents Alfred William and Mary Ann. London policeman 1911
b Lambeth in 1911 England census
b Royston in London in 1911 England census parents Amos and Anne Maria


Looking at Albert’s two Kingsley grandparents:

Paternal: 1881 census as above Albert’s father Richard born c1831 St Ippolitts. 1851 census at home, a farm, with parents James and Mary. James Kingsley born Pirton, Hertfordshire c1800. Mary born c.1799 and eldest child George born c. 1823 Pirton. ancestry suggests James married Mary Hornett in Pirton in 1818.

Maternal: Assuming that in the 1891 census Eliza is definitely mother of Susan and grandmother of Albert. 1861 census gives Eliza wife of James Kingsley born Pirton, Hertfordshire c1819 ancestry suggests that Eliza’s maiden name was Chipperfield in which case they were married by licence in London in 1851 James son of James, a farmer. Witnesses Robert and Sophia Chipperfield. Susan Anne Alice Kingsley was baptised 22 April 1855 at Graveley, Hertfordshire, parents James and Eliza.  In 1861 Susan 6yr  and John 7yr were 2 of 4 boarders at a private school in Stevenage. Susan, John and more offspring with James and Eliza in 1871 than 1861. See James’ probate ‘formerly of Luffenhall, Clottrell, late of Hamels Farm, Braughings died 25 March 1885 at St Ibbs Farm, Ippolitts.  Estate £6729[!].  Check out a Richard Kingsley’s probate same page.

Connecting to James Kingsley b c1819 and James Kingsley b c1800 both in Pirton to our tree

Question:  Are either of these two James Kingsleys descended from John Kingsley and Mary Furrian?

James bapt. 13 May 1784 is described in John’s will as “my children … James”.  It looks doubtful if my research is correct see James b1784 Pirton and he was living in Biggleswade.

Then how are we related to James Kingsley b c1819 and James Kingsley b c1800?

This looks a minefield so go back to the Dorothy with Albert in Canada in 1901 census and see if she can give us a clue.

The birth of a Louisa Dorothy Kingsley, born in 3rd quarter of 1887 was registered in Hitchin registration district. 1891 census transcription in ancestry is wrong. She is the 3 yr old daughter of Richard Kingsley 30yr b c 1861 and Julia E 35yr and was  born in Ippollitts.  This family is at Pound Farm, neighbours of Eliza Kingsley mentioned above, where Albert was also living in 1891! In 1901 the family is at Pound Farm but no Louisa Dorothy, but have more children.

Kingsley family complicated in 1901 census Richard b c 1860 sheep and cattle dealer living at Pound Farm next to Eliza, now 82 with her son Richard born c 1860 at Graveley !!

This is interesting but does not seem to help with the James Kingsleys but does verify that we have given Albert his correct English roots.  Dorothy married Arthur Martin Dickenson in Portage La Prairie in 1907 and had at least 6 offspring.

James Pirton c1800:

Name: James Kingsley
Baptism Date: 20 Oct 1799
Baptism Place: Pirton, Herts, Eng
Father: James Kingsley
Mother: Ann

Siblings Dinah 1807 and Thomas 1802.

James Pirton 1819:

Name: James Kingsley
Birth Date: 31 Jan 1820
Baptism Date: 05 Apr 1821
Baptism Place: Pirton,Hertford,England
Father: John Kingsley, Farmer living at Pegsdon
Mother: Margaret or Peggy

OR  TIM CONFIRMS:

Name: James Kingsley
Birth Date:
Baptism Date: 17 Jan 1819
Baptism Place: Pirton,Hertford,England
Father: James Kingsley, Labourer
Mother: Mary in this case probably James married Mary Hornett 3 Sept 1818 at Pirton witnesses Sarah Males and John Ward (suggested by ancestry)

OR

offspring of marriage of James who married  9 September 1807 at Pirton Hannah Davies Spinster of Offley

Postscript

17 September 2018:  Taking a break after spending free time last week on this research.  I feel that working out the ancestors of the above Jameses and finding how they are connected to us will be difficult.  My gut feeling is that the Canadian line comes from a brother of John who married Mary Furrian.  Hopefully other DNA matches will help us get closer to the truth.