Carolyn’s Red Group Dec 2019 by CJO (+CWS)

Carolyn researched the Red Group by using private tree of 24cM cousin PM managed by SeMcAlister and comparing it with public trees. I soon found that a cluster of matches are all descended from James Rogers Mitchell 1798-1879 and Elizabeth Bacon 1805-? who lived in Washington County in the NE tip of Tenneesee and then with their 10 offspring and a group of families, whose names appear in matches’ family trees, moved to Monroe County, Kansas.

At the moment I cannot tell whether the DNA is Mitchell or Bacon, also it maybe that there are two clusters, or more within the Red Group being via a sibling(s) or cousin(s) of Mitchell or Bacon whose DNA we are seeing from other matches. What is the likelihood that all 122 matches are decended from Mitchell-Bacon marriage? As Chris suggests below we need to go back one or maybe two generations before we get back to the person who emigrated to the USA. I think that the next move is to look for another cluster of names and places, but this maybe muddled by inbreeding.

We are looking for a 4th+ cousins…. so GN Grandparents birth 1782 or before. Probably before 1750.

I have investigated all the “Red Group” >20cM. There is a high incidence of European blood mixed with UK blood. This suggests Eastern Seaboard USA not Canada… not Australia. ACTUALLY THE ENTIRE GROUP (>6cM) IS PRESENTLY USA BASED! Carolyn is a complete oddity in this group living in the UK. At present I think the biggest clue is that fact. So it is somebody who left the UK, probably before Australia opened up, to the USA and left an oldest, probably recently married, child behind. We are related to this child (I found one CJO link to this red group!). To me this feels like a Scottish relation, where landlords paid their tenant farmers and families to emigrate to the USA. They may have left via Ireland.

My idea from a DNA point of view is that this is a VERY distant cousin (7th?) and the USA side is from the early 1700’s and has many large families. So while the link is distant we get DNA links just from the shear number of USA relatives. At the same time the UK side has smaller families.

While the Ursala Parrish Rutherford Ancestry link is an obvious “crazy” link on paper, the Ancestry guess is probably in the correct general area of our tree. Remember Ancestry have more information than us… we would not know if one of our Wanless group was linked to the red group… ancestry do know! Ancestry should be strong on DNA information weak on deciding if trees are any good.

(I need to listen to Ancestry again on how the waves of emigration happened.)

There is a high incidence of Washington County TN and adjacent counties in Virginia. Of the 50 red links with trees: 9 have Washington County, TN. Carolyn has marked a sub group “X-red Mitchell-Bacon” I find 4 of these 5 trees have a single person in common: Henry Harmon Hall (BIRTH 8 NOV 1851) who had a son Oscar Tas Hall. Henry came from Monroe Co. Kentucky, 190 miles from Washington County TN along a very main route. Henry’s grandfather Doke (born 1798) probably came from Grayson, Virginia, United States which is half way between Monroe Co. and Washington Co.

I think we can safely assume a sub-group of the Red Group is settled in the Virginia/Tennessee border area East of Knoxville.

Names with high frequency (4th/higher) include:

Ross 2/1
Shelton 0/4
Barnett 1/2
Anderson 4/4
Miller 3/4
Jackson 2/8
Hall 3/9
Mitchell 3/5
Bacon 1/1 (all in Mitchell – Bacon group)

Areas of Note:

Washington Co. , TN 5/4
Monroe County, Tennessee, USA 2/0 (same tree)
Virginia 8/23
Tennessee 8/18

Kentucky 7/15
West Virginia 1/6
North Carolina, USA 7/21
South Carolina, USA 4/17
Pennsylvania 8/16
Massachusetts 6/8
New Hampshire 2/4
Georgia 3/10
Missouri 3/10
Ireland 3/15
Canada 2/2
Australia 0/0
Utah 0/0

There is a cluster of 4 Shelton’s all in Virginia. I do not know if this is real it could be a “kingsley-like phenomenon”. There is a Thomas Shelton, of Shelton, Norfolk, England who was born ~1606 in Norfolk and died October 24, 1683 in the USA. It was a large Virginia family, and anyone wanting to prove they are an early settler would work to put this name on their tree. It is through a Shelton that wants to connect cwo to the red group. Many of the Geni pages on the Shelton’s are managed by
David Michael Parrish… so I suspect Parrish is another name associated with this line (and present in the “crazy” link). A Parrish arrived in the USA in the mid-1600’s. (Everyone has lots of Parrish in their trees… far more than I would expect from a name I have never encountered). However, one of the red group DNA links is to a person (who recently died) with surname Shelton… so Shelton might be for real.

My best guess is the “crazy” link has some truth. The USA tree is very suspect with a lady having a first child at 51 years of age. I strongly suspect it is missing one or two generations. In particular Ursula Parrish Rutherford 1732- was almost certainly born in the USA, because of the middle name. Our Mary Rutherford 1764- was not. So I think there was probably a brother(?) of our Mary, who married a Parrish. If so it could be their father is:

William Overton Sr. Rutherford
BIRTH 25 APR 1714

but I think not as our Mary was born when he was probably already in the USA. So they MAY share grandparents, which probably means this link will never be provable.

We are both connected by Ancestry to through the same Rutherford/Lacy link as used in the “crazy” link to BettyWilder15.
So Betty better be connected to your red group people especially Shirley Sowell of the “crazy” link! Maybe we should send them a mail?

This would help connect our Wanless group to your Red Group. And give us more confidence in the existence of:

Susannah Rutherford 1750–1839
Matthew William Lacy Sr. 1748–1823

in our Red Group Tree.

I think it would be sensible to have as a working hypothesis that the Red Group is connected through Mary Rutherford. That hypothesis would be strengthened if we knew Betty Wilder and Shirley Sowell are DNA related.

Await more people and see if we can get a second/third tree grouping. Probably best tree at present is :

Lester RossManaged by JStockwell87

as it is an apparently well researched tree, and mothers side is Russian, so we start at:

Ray Anderson Ross
BIRTH 17 JUN 1908 • Joplin, Jasper, Missouri, United States

Getting one generation “for free”.